The scale of resources required for intervention measures is actually not large. If done efficiently, it will not have a significant impact on our domestic aid. But efficiency is key. You could distribute useless water pumps to villages that have no food, but that won’t help anyone.
Tucker Carlson: Yes, I think you have a point. The aid to Africa over the past 60 years has proven this, despite the decline in life expectancy. But as a moral issue, how can you justify worrying about malaria while your cousin is addicted to Xanax? Shouldn’t you address that problem first?
SBF: If I could, I would. But at the end of the day, each of us has a responsibility. If I know my cousin well and know how to solve that problem, then I absolutely have a responsibility to do so. But if I’ve tried and am powerless to make progress, while I can save lives internationally, or someone else can, then I don’t think that diminishes the good they can do internationally, even if they can’t solve their family problems.
Tucker Carlson: Alright, I understand your point. I don’t think this is a crazy perspective. One last question: can you think of a recent, clearly successful international aid project?
SBF: To some extent, yes, but I won’t specify which project. It’s not a government project, but some private initiatives. In fact, malaria is a great example. Through primarily private donations, the global incidence of malaria has significantly decreased, especially in Africa and India, potentially saving hundreds of thousands of lives each year, with the average cost of saving a life being several thousand dollars. In relative terms, this is an astonishing success.
We are not talking about a trillion dollars, but about billions, which have been used for malaria prevention through very careful work. Of course, you can also see some government projects that are completely ineffective. If you want to find a successful government project, the Marshall Plan might be a good example—though that dates back quite a while—it was hugely successful in rebuilding Germany after World War II.
Tucker Carlson: Yes, although we may have ruined all of that by blowing up the Nord Stream pipeline. But you’re right. How old are you now?
SBF: To be honest, I have to think about it. In prison, time becomes blurry; every day feels like the same as the day before. The answer is, tomorrow is my birthday, so I am now 32, but I will soon be 33.
Tucker Carlson: How do you plan to celebrate your birthday?
SBF: I don’t celebrate. I didn’t celebrate my birthday much when I was outside, and celebrating another year in prison is not something that excites me.
Tucker Carlson: So you wouldn’t tell Diddy that tomorrow is your birthday? I don’t believe that.
SBF: Maybe someone else will tell him, but I have no intention of doing so.
Tucker Carlson: Well, you’ll be 33 tomorrow. If you are not pardoned, how old will you be when you get out, given the current situation?
SBF: That’s a complicated calculation, and I’m not entirely clear on the details because there is a possibility for sentence reduction. If you simply add my sentence to my age, the answer would be close to 50 years old.
Tucker Carlson: Can you handle that?
SBF: Sorry, I misspoke. If you account for all possible reductions, it might be in my 50s. But the correct answer is, I was 32 when convicted, with a sentence of 25 years, so I would be 57.
Tucker Carlson: You’ve been incarcerated for 2 years, so you have 23 years left. Do you think you can endure that?
SBF: That’s a good question. I’m not sure. The hardest part is that there’s nothing meaningful to do here. You see, studies show that the suicide rate in prisons is about three times that of the normal population. So, 25 years multiplied by 3, plus my age of 32 when convicted, might yield an answer. Maybe.
Tucker Carlson: I find that a bit strange. You might be the most extreme example of someone who has jumped from one world to another completely different world. You were once in the world of digital currency, but now you’re in a world without money. What is the medium of exchange in prison?
SBF: You know, it’s what people have on hand. For example, muffins—those little plastic-wrapped muffins that you see at gas station counters, packed in a plastic ball, with individually wrapped muffins that have been sitting at room temperature for a week. Imagine that kind of thing; that’s the standard. Or a pack of ramen soup, or a pack of fish that looks disgusting, sitting in oil, also at room temperature.
Tucker Carlson: So, you’ve shifted from cryptocurrency to a muffin economy. Right. How do you compare the two? Obviously, muffins are harder to circulate internationally, but as a form of currency, what do you think?
SBF: In the short term, muffins are unlikely to become a global reserve currency. They are a demand currency, with no other uses and not much intrinsic value. But ultimately, they have some interchangeability. Although not completely interchangeable, they are close enough. Two muffins are roughly similar, so you can trade them. As long as the transaction amount doesn’t exceed $5, they can still be used. But if you want to make a $200 transaction with muffins, that’s impractical.
Tucker Carlson: Too cumbersome.
SBF: Exactly. One thing you quickly realize is that everything in prison is scaled down. You see people fighting over a banana, not because they care so much about the banana, but because they have no other outlet.
Tucker Carlson: That sounds brutal. Do you eat those muffins, or do you just trade them?
SBF: I just trade them. I don’t eat them. I mainly eat rice, beans, and ramen.
Tucker Carlson: Looks like that’s working for you. Do you have any tattoos?
SBF: I don’t. I know some people do, but I don’t have any myself.
Tucker Carlson: Have you considered it?
SBF: I did consider getting a tattoo. But after talking to my cellmates about their sterilization procedures—or lack thereof—the idea was dismissed. I lost interest in tattoos; it’s not worth the risk of contracting hepatitis. They probably sterilize the needles after using them on four or five people.
Tucker Carlson: Alright, so you won’t get a tattoo. Since you’ve been cut off from the outside world and still face a 23-year sentence, I’m curious—those you’ve helped— I mean, you’re in prison because you hurt people, but you also helped many in Washington through your donations of millions of dollars. Have any of them reached out to you, saying “Good luck, hope you’re doing well,” or have they said nothing?
SBF: Right after the collapse, I received many kind messages from people, including some in Washington. But six months later, no one contacted me. By the time of the trial, when I was in prison, there was no more communication. It became too politically sensitive; people were reluctant to risk contacting me. I even heard some people speak well of me in private, but no one was willing to reach out directly.
Tucker Carlson: Has anyone contacted you? I noticed someone who I thought was your girlfriend testified against you. Do you have any friends who have remained loyal and supportive, or is it nearly none?
SBF: Yes, but very few. I later realized that anyone close to me would ultimately be threatened. They were told they had two options, one of which could mean decades in prison. Ryan Salem is the most heartbreaking example and, from the government’s perspective, the most disgusting. They charged him with some completely ridiculous crimes. He said, “No, we’ll see you in court.” So the government came back and said, “Well, what about your pregnant wife? What if we put her in prison?” So he pled guilty because the government threatened to imprison his wife. No legal system would allow the prosecution to do that. Moreover, he wasn’t even charged with most of the crimes that other guilty pleas were charged with. Ryan didn’t testify at the trial because he didn’t want to lie or say what the government wanted him to say. As a result, he received a sentence four times longer than the other three combined. The message conveyed couldn’t be clearer. Was it because he is a Republican or because he refused to cooperate with the government’s lies in court? I can only think of those two reasons for why he received a seven-and-a-half-year sentence.
Tucker Carlson: That’s disgusting. I’ve interviewed him at home. I think they also charged his wife. What they did is completely immoral.
SBF: Absolutely agree. They violated their promises, completely shattering any notion of their integrity. It’s disgusting. He’s a good person, and he shouldn’t have to endure this.
Tucker Carlson: Are you aware of how quickly the outside world is changing? When you get out, the world may be completely different from when you left. For example, the development of AI; it seems we are approaching artificial general intelligence (AGI) or some sort of singularity.
SBF: Yes, I feel that deeply. It’s a feeling of the world moving on while you are left behind.
Tucker Carlson: Having children is part of your effective altruism philosophy?
SBF: No. Different people in the community have different views on this. Over the past five years, I felt like I had about 300 children—my employees. Obviously, I can’t treat all of them like a father, but I feel responsible for them. I’m very saddened by the destruction of their work. But while running FTX, I had almost no personal life. And now in prison, I obviously don’t have the conditions to have children.
Tucker Carlson: Did any of those 300 employees come to visit you in prison?
SBF: No. I think the answer is no. One or two may have come.
Tucker Carlson: You might want to consider having a few real children at some point because when things go south, they will be there for you.
SBF: That starts to make me think about what true reliance is and the extent to which intimidation tactics in certain systems in our country can reach. But at the same time, it makes me realize how important it is to have people to rely on.
Tucker Carlson: Others are everything. SBF, I’m grateful you accepted this interview, possibly your only one without being pressed about business, as that’s someone else’s concern. But I’m glad to have had this conversation with you, and I hope you send our regards to Diddy.
SBF: I definitely will.
Tucker Carlson: I can hardly believe you and Diddy are in the same prison.
SBF: I know, right? If someone had told me three years ago that I would be spending every day with Diddy, I would have found that amusing. I wonder if he has also dabbled in cryptocurrency?
Tucker Carlson: Life is strange. I wish you all the best, and thank you. It seems YouTube is suppressing this program. From one angle, that’s not surprising; they do that. But from another angle, it’s shocking. With so much change happening in the world, in our economy and politics, on the brink of war, Google decides you should receive less information rather than more. That’s completely wrong. Tomorrow, what can you do? We can complain, but that would be a waste of time. We can’t control Google. Or we can find ways around it to ensure you get real information rather than deliberately misleading information.
[Link to the interview video] This article is reprinted with permission from Lidu BlockBeats.
